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  #21  
Old 05-17-2006, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the bishop
Wipe the nose off and start to contribute, it seems your only function on this site so far has been to nutswing.



Nice try Bishop!

As a spectator, it's easy to see who has the chip on their shoulder and who's speaking the truth!


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  #22  
Old 05-17-2006, 05:45 PM
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I have started a new thread to discuss whether Sheila should be banned here:

http://www.thebeastmovie.com/forums/...ad.php?p=26817

Please ONLY address that specific question in that thread.

Thanks.
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  #23  
Old 05-17-2006, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punkish
Um, bishop, there's only one miracle in Islam. Or weren't you aware of this? Plus, Allah is too transcendent to do things like what youre insisting upon.

I'm not aware of anything except the fact that every damned god out there has a reason or excuse why they could perform miracles back when primitive man was too stupid to understand things and not anymore.

I know Christianity's excuses, I guess I know Islam's excuse now, is there ANY religion out there that has a god that can prove it? Or are they ALL just bags of hot air without any substance?

See why I'm agnostic? no gods around.
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  #24  
Old 05-17-2006, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jughead
Nice try Bishop!

As a spectator, it's easy to see who has the chip on their shoulder and who's speaking the truth!


Jughead


So Jughead, what is your take on the Gospels -- Matthew, Mark, Luke and John -- having not been written by actual disciples of Jesus? That it is a traditional belief in Christianity, but one not supported by evidence. The names were added on to the Gospels much later.

I'm just curious if you know enough to even understand who is speaking the truth -- it's hard to know who is winning something when you don't know the rules involved. Start a new thread so we don't give the mods more work, but I'm calling YOU out instead of you sitting back and letting "big brother" answer for you. What's up?
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  #25  
Old 05-17-2006, 11:54 PM
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Solid evidence would be what people need. They needed it back then, what is different now? Proof ...

Do you think perhaps free will was imposed on due to all of the supposed miracles that happened 2,000 years ago?

Um, hate to break it to you, but the bible says Jesus said a lot of things - especially like when he was due to return - and he's a bit late on that one.

Nice excuses though - your god has god answers for everything just like every other god out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jughead
I highly doubt it if you would convert if there was irefutable evidence, then that would be imposing on your free will wouldn't it?

Solid evidence would put you in a strange predicamnet wouldn't it?


Didn't Jesus say that he wouldn't leave a sign for a wicked and evil generation?

there's your answer!


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  #26  
Old 05-17-2006, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jughead
I highly doubt it if you would convert if there was irefutable evidence, then that would be imposing on your free will wouldn't it?

Negative. Especially considering there is still hell to consider.
In all honesty, his irrefutable presence would cement the reality of free will.
You can either choose, or not. Instead of choosing one side, and taking a gamble out of lack of information, and duress.

The current system is really more of an assault on free will, than the proposed solution that your attacking. Currently, we have ZERO conclusive proof that god does in fact exist. This makes any choice, a choice based on faith and fear. Ultimately a gamble. And thats only assuming you choose the RIGHT religion!

If god DID come down, then free will would be cemented, in that you could choose between two clearly distinct opposites.
Currently, you have nothing but duress.



Quote:
Solid evidence would put you in a strange predicamnet wouldn't it?

Not really. Admitting that one has made an error is acceptable, considering proof would finally be within grasp. To err is human, to forgive is.....



Quote:
Didn't Jesus say that he wouldn't leave a sign for a wicked and evil generation?

there's your answer!


Jughead


Merely another non-answer. Any era in which god doesn't show, could be said to be evil, with no real yardstick by which to measure. And if you wanna go that route, Jesus also told disciples that he would appear to bring in the new kingdom within their lifetime.
2000 years later, we're still waiting.





Love,
Goth_Slut
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  #27  
Old 05-18-2006, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the bishop
So Jughead, what is your take on the Gospels -- Matthew, Mark, Luke and John -- having not been written by actual disciples of Jesus? That it is a traditional belief in Christianity, but one not supported by evidence. The names were added on to the Gospels much later.

I'm just curious if you know enough to even understand who is speaking the truth -- it's hard to know who is winning something when you don't know the rules involved. Start a new thread so we don't give the mods more work, but I'm calling YOU out instead of you sitting back and letting "big brother" answer for you. What's up?

First of all, you tell me what you believe and we will start from there.(atheist,theist,etc)

You probably think this is a Chess game in your mind, since you are a bishop, and my gut tells me your a chess player, but be warned, I choose whom I checkmate and who I draw with and who I let win, all depends on the opponent and how they play the game, and chess is one game I have many tournament hours under my belt.

You like the challenge don't you.

It's in your blood isn't it, the rush of the game, the tension, pressed for time, looking at the clock as you approach your last few seconds.....LOL
All kidding aside let's move on....

Well back to what we were discussing, kinda got lost there for a moment.

This is how it's gonna happen.

Your probably a athiest.

So we will start there.

If you are, then you don't believe in life after death.

Correct?

Now, I have set up a string about NDE's called NDE's revisited, I would like you to read all of what I posted, ALL of what I posted, then come back and we will discuss it.
But be warned that I have done my homework on this topic, and I beleive there is enough doucumented evidence pointing towards life on the otherside, and if correct then you my friend are in quite an akward position, because the bottom line is IF there is life on the other side, then that probably means some sort of Judgement or life review, as a matter of fact practically all cases I have studied so far involve a life review to which I believe we are all going to experience weather we like it or not bieng that death is a sure thing, Jeez today could be your or my last breath and, well you know the rest.

Have fun with the string and will talk to you in a bit, agreed?
(and, please don't just skim over it, give it a good go, even though uncomfortable it may get...)


Jughead
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  #28  
Old 05-18-2006, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goth_Slut
Negative. Especially considering there is still hell to consider.
In all honesty, his irrefutable presence would cement the reality of free will.
You can either choose, or not. Instead of choosing one side, and taking a gamble out of lack of information, and duress.

The current system is really more of an assault on free will, than the proposed solution that your attacking. Currently, we have ZERO conclusive proof that god does in fact exist. This makes any choice, a choice based on faith and fear. Ultimately a gamble. And thats only assuming you choose the RIGHT religion!

If god DID come down, then free will would be cemented, in that you could choose between two clearly distinct opposites.
Currently, you have nothing but duress.





Not really. Admitting that one has made an error is acceptable, considering proof would finally be within grasp. To err is human, to forgive is.....






Merely another non-answer. Any era in which god doesn't show, could be said to be evil, with no real yardstick by which to measure. And if you wanna go that route, Jesus also told disciples that he would appear to bring in the new kingdom within their lifetime.
2000 years later, we're still waiting.





Love,
Goth_Slut



Ok Goth, here is what I mean when I tried to illustrate about the free will part.

I should have added the faith ingredient, that bieng the most important part of the cake and I left it out!

We have 2 main camps, believers in heaven, Jesus, God, you know what I mean.
Then you have the non-beleivers, the skeptics, atheists and so forth.

Now, lets say God exists, but he doesn't want to impose or force himself on us, he want's it to be a free choice so he leave's us with creation as a strong signature of his existence, and combined with man's intellect and ability to rationalize and reason, are able to come to the conclusion that we were put here by some powerful force or being.
Here's a verse to go with it:

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

That's where the faith part comes in, there is even a verse to go along with it that as well:



Jhn 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed.



So, now remember, I'm only trying to illustrate more clearly what I tried to get across, this is how I see it from the perspective of there actually being a Creator.

Now we have free will based on faith, not solid evidence, for I believe that solid evidence would negate the faith part and would impose on one's free will.
"ok, now I know there is a God, I guess I'm forced to accept him or go to hell"

See how it imposes on one's free will?
If we can accept him on faith, then that reveals our sincerity and genuineness of wanting to follow Christ.

It's almost like criminals who have prison conversions, are they real or is it just a way of trying to scam the establishment?
If they are trying to scam, then they are not sincere and by them being in prison basically forced them into something they would not have done if they were not there.
They see it as a way of getting out, not truly being sincere.

I hope I clarified it.

If not, oh well no more baking for me, I'm just a lousy cook!

Jughead
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  #29  
Old 05-18-2006, 08:57 AM
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Okey dokey - the reply I was looking for was provided (of sorts, in any event) so everyone else please start new threads to talk about all these new topics I see in this thread ...
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