YOU: "I am done trying to reach you. I gave you a healthy misrepresentation of your own words and it made you as indignant as any Christian who visits your site. You hate to see an argument made around what another person thinks about what you believe."
I was more perplexed than "indignant" at your misrepresentation of my words. I specifically stated that certain Christian ideas are "demented," and you then claimed that I believe that all Christians are demented. I assumed you had a brain lapse since it was a clear and obvious misrepresentation of my words. I explained the problem to you and I politely asked you to stop your misrepresentation.
YOU: "What you just experienced is a total disregard for empathy. I did not try to verify what you really believe, I just made negative assumptions and built arguments around them. This is what you do continuously."
This is a false comparison. You consciously misrepresented my words, but I do not consciously misrepresent your words. What you have a problem with is with my description of Christian beliefs. These descriptions represent my honest understanding of Christian beliefs, at their most basic level. Unlike ministers and apologists, I don't bother dressing up Christian claims with a bunch of pleasant-sounding rationalizations.
YOU: "You keep twisting what I believe to restate what you think I believe and then you attack it."
I am not twisting your words, as you twisted my words. Rather, I express my honest understanding of what you believe. We have different perspectives, which colors the way we each describe Christian claims. Ultimately, that is what is causing you so much heartburn.
Our differing views on Hell demonstrate the problem:
YOU: "I have tried to tell you that I personally do not want you to go to Hell…"
I never have said that you did. On the contrary, I believe that you ultimately want to me to find eternal salvation. However, this does not change my view that you worship a god that tortures people for their opinions.
YOU: "…and I do not believe that there is an issue about you deserving Hell. "
I don't know what you mean by this. I don't know what you mean by the phrase "there is an issue about..." Is it not an issue to you that I deserve Hell? Anyway, you worship the Christian god knowing full well that it intends to send me to Hell if I don't become a Christian.
YOU: "It is a place that Christians believe God has created."
For unbelievers to be tortured in. (and for the Devil). This is explained in the Bible.
YOU: "Those who reject God will end up there."
They will end up there because the Christian god makes sure they go there. The Bible makes this clear.
Okay--I have just expressed my honest understanding of the Christian Hell. Where is the misrepresentation? Our perspectives on Hell are different. That is the real problem.
I can certainly provide an example of you misrepresenting my position: Despite your claim to the contrary, I don't consciously "reject" your god. I don't believe in your god in the first place. To me, it is not real. With what I know, I can no more choose to believe in your god than I could choose to believe that two plus two is equal to five. Beliefs are not chosen. My disbelief is not a choice. The point I want to make, though, is that I don't think you are dishonest because you can't understand or appreciate this. I think you are mistaken, but I don't think you are dishonest.
YOU: "Does this mean that I think you deserve Hell? That judgment is reserved for God."
This is what you wrote in an earlier e-mail:
YOU: "On the issue of you deserving eternal torture, what makes you so special?" (1/3/2002 9:31:38 AM Pacific Standard Time)
This statement would suggest that you believe I deserve eternal torture.
YOU: "This disregard for what I believe and have repeatedly stated to you makes it hard to have an honest discussion."
You don't seem to understand the problem. The problem is not honesty. The problem is that my perspective on Christianity is not your perspective. Our views and opinions differ. I am giving you my honest understanding of Christianity, and because it is not the way you understand it, you are getting all bent out of shape. When I say that you worship a god that tortures people for their opinions, where is the dishonesty? That is my clear understanding of it. The undeniable facts are 1) that you worship the Christian god, and 2) that you believe that the Christian god sends people to a place of eternal torture. We can both agree on these two facts. The only point of contention is WHY your god sends people to a place of eternal torture. You claim that people are sent to the Christian hell because they willfully "reject" the Christian god, while I am telling you as directly as I can that people cannot willfully "reject" something that they don't believe in. A person's view that Christianity is false is that person's opinion. And I am telling you now that a person's opinion is not grounds for eternal torture.
YOU: "…you cannot save someone from Christianity by waving a website in their face that shows people laughing from within Hell or dollar signs in the word Christianity."
Sometimes symbols and pictures can be helpful in getting a certain message across.
YOU: "Behind the veneer you present, I really think that you are very angry at Christianity and the Christians who cling to their belief."
I view Christians as the victims of brainwashing. As I have stated before, I think Christianity is false and promotes certain sick and demented ideas.
YOU: "You seem like someone who must meet force with force and put them in their place."
My problem is with the ideas Christianity promotes. I don't take kindly to a religion that teaches its followers that I am an evil person who deserves eternal torture. I am sorry if you don't agree that Christianity promotes this idea.
YOU: "I did not always agree with them, but they respected my right to choose."
I respect your right to choose. Choose whatever you want to choose. Go wild.
YOU: "I respected their right to present their view."
I respect your right to present your view. Present your view all you want. I am not stopping you.
YOU: "To some extent, I will always regret that last email, because it was intended to make you angry and it seemed to do so. I am sorry for that."
Don't be. What you were writing was clearly false, so I had no reason to be angry.
Anyway, we are never going to agree but I thank you for your views and I wish you well.