Brooks,
I think that our main point of difference is that you do not see how anyone
with a complete knowledge of Christianity can come to a different
conclusion than the one you have come to accept. My experience on your
website should have shown you otherwise. I am not a victim of brainwashing.
I have sound rational reasons for what I do and believe. You may choose to
call them foolish and lacking in sufficient reasoning, but they are not
consistent with brainwashing. My natural convictions have not been replaced
by an opposing set of beliefs.
What I have been trying to get at is that you really want to reach people
who are currently embracing Christianity, but you are trying to do it as
though those people already agree with you. You have stated that you are
just being true to your convictions. Perhaps the problem is that you can't
see the conviction in the Christian's choice. You seem to regard the
decision to be a Christian with all the seriousness of thought that a WWF
wrestling fan gives to the legitimacy of the wrestling matches he watches.
As a former Christian, I expect to see some empathy from you. One does not
change convictions that are this serious in nature the way one would change
their shirt. You don't have to agree with Christianity to empathize with
those who are Christians. In fact, without that empathy, you are
immediately dead in the water.
Maybe this example will help. Let's say that you are a loyal Corvette
customer. For twenty years you have driven Corvettes. You believe them to
be the best American-made production sports car on the market. As you drive
by the Dodge dealership one day, you notice that the dealer has issued a
challenge to Corvette owners to come and see why the Dodge Viper is
superior. You decide to drop in and see what the Dodge representative has
to say.
You can bet that the Dodge sales representative is going to greet you
politely. You can be certain that he is not going to tell you that
Chevrolet has brainwashed you into buying a piece of junk. No, instead he
is likely to ask you what you like most about the Corvette. If you say that
you really think that it is the fastest production sports car available, he
is likely to say that there is no doubt that the Corvette is fast. He is
then likely to quote performance statistics that show the Viper to be
faster. He will probably even suggest that there is no better proof than to
experience it for yourself. He may say something to this effect, "If speed
is what you want, twenty years of Corvette ownership has definitely given
you that, but if ultimate speed is what you want, I think that you will
find the Viper to be the car for you." At this point he will offer you the
opportunity to go down to the local track with him to see what a fine job
the Dodge engineers have done with the drivetrain.
Even though the salesperson does not hold the Corvette in high esteem, he
realizes that trashing the Vette will not allow him to show the superiority
of his product. His customer will walk away and not ever really give any
consideration the Viper. It doesn't matter that he used to be a sales rep
for Chevrolet and that he has a great disdain for that company. He must
meet the customer where he is in order to have the opportunity to show the
customer why he should shift his loyalty to Dodge. He also acknowledges
that there is good reason for the customer enjoy the Corvette. It is a fast
car. Who knows, the Corvette owner may find out that the Viper is faster,
but he still prefers the way that the Corvette handles at high speed over
the Viper. That is up to him to decide. He could not make a judgment about
the Viper without the benefit of testing the cars at the track. He never
would have gone to the track without the approach that the salesperson
used.
Somewhere along the line you have decided not to extend this type of
courtesy to Christians. I am beginning to think that it is because you
believe that the Christian holds hatred toward you. You repeatedly point to
the idea that Christians believe that you deserve to be tortured for all
eternity for choosing not to put yourself in subjection to God. The true
Christian belief is that each of us has the free will to make a choice
about being in subjection to God. The Christian does not see you as
deserving eternal suffering because of your choice. It is a reality that
the Christian believes will happen (eternal suffering). Deservedness does
not enter the picture. If you jump in the ocean, do you deserve to get wet?
I can't say that you deserve it, but it will happen. I cannot control the
properties of nature by simply deciding that you do not deserve to get wet
if you jump in the ocean.
What has me boggled is why you keep bringing this up. You have determined
that there is not enough empirical data to support the existence of God or
eternal suffering, so who cares what Christians believe? If it hurts you
feelings to think that Christians believe that you deserve to suffer for
eternity, I am here to tell you that we don't. Of course, I am still
wondering why you would care. I am not losing any sleep over the idea that
the Jehovah's Witnesses believe that I will be doomed to eternal
unconsciousness after death. For that matter, I am not concerned that you
believe that I am headed for eternal unconsciousness after death.
It comes down to this, in order to make your point, you must first engage
the listener. It is my contention that you are not doing this on your
website. You say that you are just being true to your convictions and that
it amounts to tough love. Tough love works with your children, not fellow
adults. You can't expect the Christian to remove his faith from his
personhood. An attack on his faith is an attack on him as a person, whether
you intend it to be or not. After all, his faith shapes everything he does.
If you have come to the conclusion that your approach on your website is
justified, because Christianity is just a scam to make religious leaders
rich, I challenge that notion. At what level is this scam being
perpetrated? Are all pastors aware of it? Is it at the denominational
headquarters level? Where is this great conspiracy? Perhaps all of these
people are taking money from others and they are all so brainwashed that
none of them are aware of the wrongful acts they are committing. Is this
what you are suggesting?
I'm having a hard time seeing any value in your approach. In no way is it
coming across as love, tough or otherwise. When all is said and done, it is
beginning to look like we are just two people with dramatically different
opinions. We will probably just have to agree to disagree and leave it at
that.
Matt
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Subject: Re: from Brooks:Read this one
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